The rules need clarification!

[rawgerz]

I'm going to go down a list of what I've read the rules as, and what's acceptable on wake. I'm pretty sure not everyone is on the same page, and the rules aren't exactly air tight and you can only guess from there.

Because if I get it wrong after many, many hours of play on wake, somethings not right.

Commanders do not fly (they do not fly jets, sit in the gunner seat of an attack helicopter, or pilot a black hawk or otherwise). But may sit as a passenger.
*Commanders in tanks is not in the rules, but is not allowed?*


Commanders can not arty the runway or helicopter pad, nor any part of the carrier.


ANYTHING beyond arty island is not allowed to be attacked UNTIL it passes it. If they turn back once crossing they are fair game. If they do not pass, but fire out they are fair game (for example attack chopper trying to TV others past arty island).
F35's may be attacked ANYWHERE on the map ONCE going past arty island.


No Ramming with Choppers or Planes.
*What about running someone over in a helicopter? Some servers consider this a "road kill", and not a ram*


USMC may not attack J10s or attack helicopters on the ground (occupied or not) FROM the air with either an Attack chopper or F35. They also cannot attack either one from the air until it reaches a height of 10Ft above the ground.


Stealing of other team's assists is allowed. (They are open to air and/or ground attack before taking off) *for some reason not everyone agrees on this*


Mounted guns on the carrier are fair game.


Once USMC has captured airfield and a F18 has spawned, it may be attacked before taking off, from surviving J10s
*This also is not 100% clear, I have been attacked waiting in it to take off. And after all it IS the Chinese base, with USMC merely in possession of it*

Now I'm not saying this IS the definitive set of rules here, but what I am saying is this is how I've learned them either from asking an admin, assumption, doing it and not getting in trouble, or watching others. Now that I'm getting mixed answers from more than one person, this should probably be discussed.
I mean after all, rule #9 says, "Do not attack Heli/Jet spawns at Airfield/No Matter What!!" That could be literally taken as not even being allowed to attack from the ground..

And, the rules still are not displayed in the server waiting screen!

[Ren00]

great post rawgerz...BD3D or sniperdawg will be glad to respond to your questions as soon as possible(neither one are on right now)

Thanks Reno

[BD3D]

I'm going to go down a list of what I've read the rules as, and what's acceptable on wake. I'm pretty sure not everyone is on the same page, and the rules aren't exactly air tight and you can only guess from there.

Because if I get it wrong after many, many hours of play on wake, somethings not right.


Commanders do not fly (they do not fly jets, sit in the gunner seat of an attack helicopter, or pilot a black hawk or otherwise). But may sit as a passenger.
*Commanders in tanks is not in the rules, but is not allowed?*
Commanders can not arty the runway or helicopter pad, nor any part of the carrier.
ANYTHING beyond arty island is not allowed to be attacked UNTIL it passes it. If they turn back once crossing they are fair game. If they do not pass, but fire out they are fair game (for example attack chopper trying to TV others past arty island).
F35's may be attacked ANYWHERE on the map ONCE going past arty island.
No Ramming with Choppers or Planes.
*What about running someone over in a helicopter? Some servers consider this a "road kill", and not a ram*
USMC may not attack J10s or attack helicopters on the ground (occupied or not) FROM the air with either an Attack chopper or F35. They also cannot attack either one from the air until it reaches a height of 10Ft above the ground.
Stealing of other team's assists is allowed. (They are open to air and/or ground attack before taking off) *for some reason not everyone agrees on this*
Mounted guns on the carrier are fair game.
Once USMC has captured airfield and a F18 has spawned, it may be attacked before taking off, from surviving J10s
*This also is not 100% clear, I have been attacked waiting in it to take off. And after all it IS the Chinese base, with USMC merely in possession of it*

Now I'm not saying this IS the definitive set of rules here, but what I am saying is this is how I've learned them either from asking an admin, assumption, doing it and not getting in trouble, or watching others. Now that I'm getting mixed answers from more than one person, this should probably be discussed.
I mean after all, rule #9 says, "Do not attack Heli/Jet spawns at Airfield/No Matter What!!" That could be literally taken as not even being allowed to attack from the ground..

And, the rules still are not displayed in the server waiting screen!

Rawgers,

Here is the latest URL to refer to,
http://www.tsh-clan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6067

And after reading it closely, ask again because most of you questions ask are answered. And thanks for posting ur thread. It never hurts to ask is what I always say. ;)

[SNIPERDAWG34]

What's up rawgerz. I've been and am still at work today. However, I seen you here for a while earlier today and wondered what you doing. Nothing wrong with doing some research though.

I understand that there are some rules that leave room for interpritation and well I guess our Government has been try to get it right for over 200 years and still there are great big loop holes in our legislation.

Now, you "MUST" have some intellect about you since you took the time to point out some of our loop holes. And, we do appreciate any players concern to keep our server running without contriversy.

Since you have some intelligence, it would seem to me that if there were any doubt of wether or not you would break a rule I believe you would simply not perform that act. That's what I would do on any server and expect that of anyone of my guys. I also assure you that no clan member is exempt from our rules or anyone elses server rules.

I thank you for your inquiry into are rules and just so you know. BD and I have been studying them in depth over the las several weeks and are working on some ammendments to help players understand more clearly all of our rules.

If you have any further questions please use my xfire, sniperdawg34. You may add me if you like.

Last, I have played with you several times in our Wake Island server and you for the most part play by are server rules, Mostly..!

Again, thank you for your conern and for taking the time to read our rules.

Knife you L8R..!

[boxy1111]

Okay, with the 10ft off the ground thing... it pisses people off. Is there any way so that it can be until they engage you or get above the height of the antenna? (30ft)

[rawgerz]

Rawgers,

Here is the latest URL to refer to,
http://www.tsh-clan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6067

And after reading it closely, ask again because most of you questions ask are answered. And thanks for posting ur thread. It never hurts to ask is what I always say. ;)
That's what I based my post from, so those aren't an "air tight" list.

[Mr12es]

i think we just need to go through each rule and make sure that every base is covered
seems like the only way to sort it out once and for all

[rawgerz]

Last, I have played with you several times in our Wake Island server and you for the most part play by are server rules, Mostly..!
I always play by the rules, or at least how I individually construe them ;)

[SNIPERDAWG34]

OK. THE ONLY ONES THAT SHOULD BE RESPONDING THIS POST ARE THE OFFICERS OF THE BF2 DIVISION AND HQ.

IF THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU. READ AND KEEP MOVING.

RAWGERZ, JUST ADD ME TO XFIRE. IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN ACCOUNT GET ONE AND ADD ME.

LOOK ME UP UNDER, sniperdawg34.

ENOUGH SAID.!

[TheIRAEnforcer]

I made a post about this awhile ago based on many of the same questions you had and got a lot of clarification. Here are the answers I got. Your questions and then what I was told in bold. I typed it up because we definately need to be clear with our rules.

Commanders do not fly (they do not fly jets, sit in the gunner seat of an attack helicopter, or pilot a black hawk or otherwise). But may sit as a passenger.
*Commanders in tanks is not in the rules, but is not allowed?*

Commanders cannot fly jets, gun in chopper, pilot choppers. Commanders CAN sit in cars and use tanks


Commanders can not arty the runway or helicopter pad, nor any part of the carrier.


Correct

ANYTHING beyond arty island is not allowed to be attacked UNTIL it passes it. If they turn back once crossing they are fair game. If they do not pass, but fire out they are fair game (for example attack chopper trying to TV others past arty island).
F35's may be attacked ANYWHERE on the map ONCE going past arty island.


Correct

No Ramming with Choppers or Planes.
*What about running someone over in a helicopter? Some servers consider this a "road kill", and not a ram*

You can run soldiers over with helicopter etc, but you cannot ram into a helicopter, jet NOR CAN YOU BAIL OUT OF A JET AND AIM IT AT A TANK SO THE JET RAMS INTO THE TANK AND KILLS IT AND YOU ARE LEFT ALIVE AND PARACHUTING THIS IS A RAM.


USMC may not attack J10s or attack helicopters on the ground (occupied or not) FROM the air with either an Attack chopper or F35. They also cannot attack either one from the air until it reaches a height of 10Ft above the ground.


Correct

Stealing of other team's assists is allowed. (They are open to air and/or ground attack before taking off) *for some reason not everyone agrees on this*


Correct. Clarification: If you land on the carrier and steal a plane, you cannot shoot ANY soldiers while on the carrier. You steal and go, or you blow up assets and go. No attacking soldiers.

Mounted guns on the carrier are fair game.


INCORRECT! Mounted guns on the carrier are a part of the carrier, you may not attack it.

Once USMC has captured airfield and a F18 has spawned, it may be attacked before taking off, from surviving J10s
*This also is not 100% clear, I have been attacked waiting in it to take off. And after all it IS the Chinese base, with USMC merely in possession of it*

Incorrect, you may never attack jetspawn/helipad with arty, other jets, or other choppers, regardless of who has the flag. You can however attack jet spawns/helipad with soldier weapons, tanks, and trucks.

[BD3D]

That's what I based my post from, so those aren't an "air tight" list.


Rawgers,

So you want me to break down the questions in your original post?

Including explaining which ones and which parts should have been explained by the link in my original replay? (http://www.tsh-clan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6067)

[rawgerz]

I just proved it didn't explain for every circumstance. And no, I don't want you to explain it out. It's sounding condescending already.

[TheIRAEnforcer]

I just proved it didn't explain for every circumstance. And no, I don't want you to explain it out. It's sounding condescending already.

Well I hope you found my post helpful. Keep pubbing with us. :)

[rawgerz]

Yes it helps but it'd be better to see something official instead of "so in so says" ;)

It's not entirely easy to get all the jet restrictions correct, I mean I swear no one in TSH flys J10s. It's been kinda hard to make comparisons ya know?

[boxy1111]

yes it helps but it'd be better to see something official instead of "so in so says" ;)

it's not entirely easy to get all the jet restrictions correct, i mean i swear no one in tsh flys j10s. It's been kinda hard to make comparisons ya know?

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[BD3D]

I just proved it didn't explain for every circumstance. And no, I don't want you to explain it out. It's sounding condescending already.

No Rawgerz, I was speaking rhetorically. ;)

But I understand your difficulty in comprehending the rules and I sympathize with you. So maybe we should simply agree to disagree. And taking a much more in depth approach is probably the best route to take.

So, think of the Wake rules as a combination of both simulation based pathos and War Games simulations like those that might apply to any Military around the world.

(Now that is what you call "condescending".) ;)

And yes Rawgerz, I believe you are right when you say, "I just proved it didn't explain for every circumstance." So you get an award! YAY!

But that is exactly how it was intended to be. And as a result we are in the top 300 in the World. Muahaha! 292, to be exact. Way to go TSH! And I want to take this oportunity to give thanks to all of our beloved pubbers including you, and especially you, Rawgerz- the best Jet Pilot to ever endeavor the TSH 24/7 Wake Server throughout its more than three years of existence. (81-0 the other day; and like I would begin to add up the total beyond 81-0; so don't mention it whatever it reached; Im puking now already!) :D

(Now that is what you call "patronizing"; unless you have a big ego of course.) ;)

And we will be more than happy to explain anything you don't understand. But after several hundred hours on TSH Wake you'd think that just about anybody would have mastered it by now.

But I will try anyway, to the best of my abilities.

First you asked,

"1. *Commanders in tanks is not in the rules, but is not allowed?*"

The answer is:

It may not be in the rules but it is allowed.

Next you asked,

"2. Commanders can not arty the runway or helicopter pad, nor any part of the carrier."

The answer is:

Yes, but in reguards to the China runway, as long as they stay away from the Jet spawn point and the Heli Spawn Point they are pretty much in accordance with our rules. Unless, they got so good at timing the Artillery, that as a jet took off and was no longer in its spawn point, they nailed it time after time. At that level we would insist that the commander time the Artillery in such a way that the Jet is not destroyed until after reaching the end of the runway and it was also completely off the ground.

Next you asked,

"3. ANYTHING beyond arty island is not allowed to be attacked UNTIL it passes it. If they turn back once crossing they are fair game. If they do not pass, but fire out they are fair game (for example attack chopper trying to TV others past arty island).
F35's may be attacked ANYWHERE on the map ONCE going past arty island."

The answer is:

Yes, an American F35 can.

Next you asked,

"4.No Ramming with Choppers or Planes.
*What about running someone over in a helicopter? Some servers consider this a "road kill", and not a ram*"

The answer is:

No.

Next you asked,

"5. USMC may not attack J10s or attack helicopters on the ground (occupied or not) FROM the air with either an Attack chopper or F35. They also cannot attack either one from the air until it reaches a height of 10Ft above the ground."

The answer is:

Yes, but many people agree it is more than three feet. That is because at three feet, the Heli has its Pilot and Gunner seated and partial use of the TV missile. Anything below three feet and the TV missile is useless.

Next you asked,

"6. Stealing of other team's assists is allowed. (They are open to air and/or ground attack before taking off) *for some reason not everyone agrees on this*"

The answer is:

Your question is too broad to answer. I could answer with, "If you mean this" or "if you mean that", but that is a little too much to ask for.

Next you asked,

"7. Mounted guns on the carrier are fair game."

The answer is:

No.

Next you asked,

"8. Once USMC has captured airfield and a F18 has spawned, it may be attacked before taking off, from surviving J10s
*This also is not 100% clear, I have been attacked waiting in it to take off. And after all it IS the Chinese base, with USMC merely in possession of it*"

The answer is:

No.

[rawgerz]

And yes Rawgerz, I believe you are right when you say, "I just proved it didn't explain for every circumstance." So you get an award! YAY!

Swwwwweeet, what'd I win?!
And I want to take this oportunity to give thanks to all of our beloved pubbers including you, and especially you, Rawgerz- the best Jet Pilot to ever endeavor the TSH 24/7 Wake Server throughout its more than three years of existence. (81-0 the other day; and like I would begin to add up the total beyond 81-0; so don't mention it whatever it reached; Im puking now already!) :D
Oh please, don't make me blush! :rolleyes: You know just what to say to make the average pubber feel special ;)
But seriously, where do you get that from? I'm fairly sure there's been quite a few better than myself, like this one "Mexican"..;)

Next you asked,

"6. Stealing of other team's assists is allowed. (They are open to air and/or ground attack before taking off) *for some reason not everyone agrees on this*"

The answer is:

Your question is too broad to answer. I could answer with, "If you mean this" or "if you mean that", but that is a little too much to ask for.
Alright well, is there anything wrong when you're Chinese, in a jet, in possession of airfield, and proceed to destroy a stolen attack heli before it takes off from the airfield?

Oh and can't something more be done about the frequent punisher's these days? They only seem to get a warning instead of what the rules go by..

[BD3D]

Alright well, is there anything wrong when you're Chinese, in a jet, in possession of airfield, and proceed to destroy a stolen attack heli before it takes off from the airfield?

Oh and can't something more be done about the frequent punisher's these days? They only seem to get a warning instead of what the rules go by..

I think that punishes are set to "No Announcements" on porpoise :wtf: so no that nobody sees the name of the people that punishes them. Maybe it can go back to "Announce Punishes and Forgives" instead. Whatever 1Sht2Kills advices me is where I'm going to set it.

*******************(HEY 1SHT2KILLS!!!! WHAT DO YOU SAY?????????????????)*************************** :D

And as far as the first scenario, if somebody is stealing your chopper, and your Chinese and in a Jet, it's probably not going to matter when you take them out because of the advantage you have with your Jet. I mean how can they get away anyway? I'm cruel at times, and as a result, I would probably just play with them like a cat would a mouse; if I was good in a jet of course. :D

[Mr12es]

so youd have to bomb them on the ground rite BD? :P

[BD3D]

so youd have to bomb them on the ground rite BD? :P

http://www.tsh-clan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8397

[rawgerz]

And as far as the first scenario, if somebody is stealing your chopper, and your Chinese and in a Jet, it's probably not going to matter when you take them out because of the advantage you have with your Jet. I mean how can they get away anyway? I'm cruel at times, and as a result, I would probably just play with them like a cat would a mouse; if I was good in a jet of course. :D
Well, yes. But I sometimes have this nasty little problem with running into those UAVs now and then :rolleyes:

I'm not hearing a definitive answer so I guess that one's up in the air. I suppose it's legal, especially if no teammates are around it to get blown sky high.
If it's decided it's not, well that adds a whole new complexity to it. I always looked at the rules like no one gets raped without having a chance to even leave your own team's spawn point.

[josh43758]

The sever is nice but honestly I don't like it how the admin played favorites and let some ppl break rules and not kick. I did attack chopper pad then they said its against the rules so I didn't do it anymore. The thing that pissed me off was I was in a j-10 and I was taking off and a F-35 was attacking me and then a admin TSHr donthaveaseisure shot me with a rocket while i just passed runway. I am not mad about him shooting me but its the rule that says 5. "USMC may not attack J10s or attack helicopters on the ground (occupied or not) FROM the air with either an Attack chopper or F35. They also cannot attack either one from the air until it reaches a height of 10Ft above the ground.
Then I try to tell the admin what happened and I got banned. I know I used harsh words to try and get the point across but showing favoritism is showing a true lack of integrity on his part. I would love to play with TSH again b/c it was only 1 of 12 servers I can play in without lagging.

[SNIPERDAWG34]

Josh, throughout the day you were breaking the rules. Remember you may fill singled out unless you are breaking the rules. Not only one admin was on at the time but 3. They all seen what happened and were only going to kick you to see if you would adhere to our rules, you had to go and use extremelly disrespectful language. Kicked for calling players names and attacking heli/jet spawns. Warned prior to being kicked. Then was banned for using F... Y.. to one of my recruits.

Now, If you think that you have been mistreated in any way, you might need a reallity check. Just because you see other people who you think may be breaking the rules doesn't mean you do it as well. The trickle affect is not what I need.

If you can clean up your language and respect our members as well as other players and respect our rules. Then I will give you another shot.

If you have any question about our rules xfire me at sniperdawg34 and I will address your concerns.

Otherwise, if you don't feel that you are able to adhere to our sever rules and listen to our members then I believe you need to find somewhere else to play.

Sniperdawg34

[rawgerz]

if you got shot down from the ground, then its fine.

Anyways, guys, I've been noticing that tanks can't seem to shoot down a jet in your server. You know, those perfectly timed shots. J10s especially but I didn't have trouble on other servers and can't figure out why hmm.

I do have a new ISP, that is better, so maybe it will change then. Oh and watch out.. I'll be deadlier than ever ;)

[josh43758]

I was shot by a F-35 while I was still on the airfield where the jet spawned. I can control my language but when you lie to me in a previous post saying I was warned prior to attacking the heli pad your wrong. I did it once then someone on VOIP said its against the rules so i didnt do it anymore. and I read the rules and I was wronged by the pilot of the f35. You said "They all seen what happened and were only going to kick you to see if you would adhere to our rules? Why were you going to kick me if I had only attacked the pad once then stopped b/c u told me it was against the rules. I used langauge to your member after I saw the thing say you were going to kick me. I did nothing wrong when you were kicking me. doing that provoked me to tell him to F off. I can leave all this in the past I just don't know why you wouldn't kick the F35 pilot who broke your rule. I'm sorry for the trouble that I have caused and it will never happen again. I have read all the rules online and I can comply with them. I just didn't like it that you didn't kick the pilot for attacking airstrip. Have a good day and I hope to play with ya soon.

[SNIPERDAWG34]

Josh,

There is a thing called server logs and i can go back as far as I need to investigate what happened.

Just know this, my admins are instructed to do exactly what I ask of them and they are perfroming the duties on my behalf. They report to me everytime they kick or bann and then me and every admin who was there examine the server logs and make a determination as to wether or not the kick/ban was warranted or if the player deserves another chance.

If I feel it wasn't warranted then I deel with them personally. If it was then I deel with the player, personally.

I have examined those logs with the admins who were there and found that your punishment was warranted. And, you were not the only one to kicked/banned from the server. Just, cause you didn't see it doesn't you were the only one...And I'll leave it at that.

I maintain a server that has opportunity for everyone and rules are in place for everyones gaming benefit.

I do accept your apology and believe that you will adhere to these rules. For future reference. You do not need to have any other infraction. If you disrespect any TSH member you are subject to instant BANN. My admins don't need any other reason. And, this comes straight from me!

I'll have your bann lifted as soon as I get in touch with one of my admins.

Have fun on our server. And, If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me anytime.

Sniperdawg34.NCO